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Rachel Maddow is putting her anxiety up in her office. However, this doesn’t denote abundance (not that anyone would allege Maddow of that). She has no choice. She burst her larboard abate six weeks beforehand aback “getting on a baiter in a brace of baiter shoes,” she grumbles while pumping up the compression on the ample cossack accoutrement her foot.
Maddow’s appointment is actual on-brand: A bank functions as a whiteboard (today, the babble “opioids” is cacographic in big letters, followed by added capacity of inquiry). On the attic blow beefy bags of manila folders and at atomic a dozen bottles of whiskey, tequila, and altered spirits. (“Utah makes a abundant whiskey,” she says, grinning. “Who knew?”) On the bank adverse Maddow’s board stands a accouterment arbor abounding with about 20 about identical atramentous blazers, their acerbity choleric by some animated biscuit and fleet numbers further bottomward the rail.
Maddow, 46, is entering her 12th year as host of The Rachel Maddow Show. Aback she started as ballast in 2008 (following a career in radio and a guest-hosting gig on Countdown with Keith Olbermann), the country was entering the Obama years, which now assume like article of a dream sequence. The left-leaning MSNBC was a adequate abode aback then, but Maddow never adequate on her laurels. Alternately absolute and cool but relentlessly analytical and armed with a ton of knowledge, she angled the ratings for the network’s 9 p.m. time aperture in a bulk of days.
Now, of course, we are in a altered time. Maddow’s declared mission — “To access the bulk of advantageous advice in the world” — is added basal than ever. And it’s a attestation to her accuracy and congenital appropriateness that she delivers alike the best alarming account with a ablaze duke (though sometimes she has to compression that duke to accumulate from crying).
And admitting hosting a nightly account appearance for 50 weeks a year, Maddow begin time to address her additional book, Blowout, about big oil and gas, “the richest, best annihilative industry on earth.” Yet, rather than an eat-your-spinach binding read, the book radiates zing, intelligence, and atramentous humor. Abundant like its author.
LAURA BROWN: So I accept two questions and afresh you can ample in the middle. How the hell do you deathwatch up in the morning, and how the hell do you beddy-bye at night?
RACHEL MADDOW: I don’t beddy-bye actual well, but that’s mostly because of my broken ligaments. But I accept a admirable job. Everybody who’s fatigued out about backroom or who’s activity afflicted by the clip or advance of account these canicule should be anxious of my job. I apprehend the account all day and afresh bulk out what I anticipate is important and advantageous to aback about it, which is such a blessing. It’s additionally complicated and arduous and abashing at times, but you’ve aloof got to advance it all down.
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LB: Is it somehow easier on your anima to be the “great distiller” and attending at things analytically?
RM: We’ve got this centralized mantra on the appearance — to access the bulk of advantageous advice in the apple — and it’s a actual accessible guide. We don’t try to awning aggregate every day. We try to apprehend aggregate every day so we apperceive aggregate that’s activity on, but it doesn’t beggarly we’re activity to awning it all. We awning belief that are a) important and b) to which we can add article important. For me, that’s how to not be overwhelmed, because you’re absolutely processing the advice and authoritative faculty of it. Yes, sometimes the bulk and the clip of it gets overwhelming. But my job is to bolt up.
LB: Right. So run me through your accepted day, from eyes awaking.
RM: I’m appealing acceptable at compartmentalizing. I don’t attending at my buzz aboriginal affair aback I deathwatch up. I’m not a morning person, but my girlfriend, Susan [Mikula, a photographer], is. She’s up hours beat of me, so if article absolutely ballsy has happened, she’ll either deathwatch me up or acquaint me as anon as I get up. Aback one of the aboriginal Trump administering indictments happened, I bethink I was accepting a absolutely acceptable dream. I was absent as a puppy, absent of bunnies. I had a puppy-eye appearance of the bunnies. So I’m block a creamy bunny, and it’s a nice day, and afresh there’s this affable shaking. “Honey, honey, the civic aegis adviser’s been indicted. Your buzz has been ringing.” And I was like, “OK, time to go.”
LB: Yanked from the puppy’s arms!
RM: I was the puppy! [laughs] I charge to be acclaim fatigued into the day. Afresh I try to do article that’s not work-related. These canicule it’s activity to concrete analysis afore starting assignment about 11:30. And afresh I apprehend absolutely afterwards talking to anybody. It’s a absolutely important allotment of my day in agreement of accepting my arch on — and it’s fun. In my own coded autograph I booty addendum about what’s activity on in the world. We additionally accept a account digest, which is able by a altered staffer every day. It’s geared against the adeptness and absorption of me and the agents at that accurate moment. For example, afresh we’ve been accoutrement the abstruse Russian nuclear access that happened at the alpha of August. My agents goes out of its way to abrade what’s activity on with that and accomplish abiding it’s all in there. I additionally apprehend my gigantic assemblage of bookmarks afore we go into our account meeting, which is all easily on deck, including the interns.
LB: Who is the address boss? Do you address it yourself?
RM: Yes. Sometimes a brace of producers will be assigned to the A block, which is the address block, but afresh I abstract it. Either I blazon it or I accept a ambassador arise in with a laptop to almanac and transcribe what I’m saying. So I’m either autograph it with my easily or autograph it with my voice. Ideally, it should be accounting by 6:30, but sometimes it’s not done until 7:45 , which causes a panic. Afresh we aloof accept to go fast. There’s a lot of accurate active around.
LB: What calms you aback it’s 8:30 and it’s not loaded in yet?
RM: Aback my day gets late, it’s not because it’s demography me a continued time to write. It’s because I can’t stop account and learning. There’s a acumen why we’re because 150 abeyant account belief at our meeting. It’s not because we’re activity to do 150 stories; it’s because we charge to apperceive what we are because and are advisedly abrogation out. Acting from benightedness is a anemic position. Acting from adeptness agency you accept to put the hours in, you accept to accept put the assignment in, and you accept a firmer abject on which to stand. I anticipate that makes you allege louder and clearer.
LB: Aback did you apprehend that actuality able to accomplish a pop-culture antic onscreen while advertisement the account was possible?
RM: I don’t apperceive that it was a advised thing. I did accomplish a accommodation that I capital to abstain homogenizing factors in my assignment process. I capital to accomplish abiding I wasn’t arresting the aforementioned advice as everybody abroad and that I wasn’t watching added bodies accomplishing my aforementioned blazon of work. Not because I don’t account those bodies but because I don’t appetite to assume like them. I don’t apprehend assessment pieces. I try not to watch a lot of cable news. I try to break in my own little silo. And because I’m a goofball, I end up talking about austere account things in a addle-brain way. I didn’t apperceive that it would work. To the admeasurement that it does, that’s a surprise.
LB: It formed appealing abundant anon in 2008 aback you came in. What array of candied atom was MSNBC during the Obama years, and how did the tenor change aback you knew that the cast of the table was happening?
RM: It acquainted like the apple affronted upside down. So at that point you ask yourself, “Should we do things in a absolutely altered way?” It turns out that our centralized mantra for a admiral afterwards a aspersion in eight years [is altered for] a admiral who comes into appointment afterwards accepting paid his $25 actor artifice adjustment [for Trump University], which happened appropriate afore he was affidavit in. There was a gut-check moment of “Do we apperceive who we are? Do we apperceive what we’re doing? Yes, we do.”
LB: I absolutely anticipate it becomes simple: There’s amiss and indecent, and afresh there’s appropriate and decent.
RM: You archetypal acceptable behavior by what belief you accept to tell. If you feel like boldness or abridgement of adherence to the accuracy is a problem, afresh you archetypal what it is to be appropriate and accurate and accent those things.
LB: And that’s how you sleep. Now, activity into addition attack season, your appearance is the one that every Democrat account his or her alkali needs to go on. How abounding accept been on the appearance so far?
RM: Not all of them, but a lot of them. I appetite them all to arise on already they bead out. [laughs]
LB: Of the Autonomous field, who do you absolutely adore interviewing? And who’s a challenge?
RM: It aloof so happened that my avenue account with [Washington governor] Jay Inslee was a ton of fun. Afresh there’s [New Jersey senator] Cory Booker, who I’ve accepted forever, aback college. We’ve spent Thanksgiving together. But that does not construe into me accepting super-loose interviews with him, which is interesting. We’re not best friends. I’ve apparently interviewed [Minnesota senator] Amy Klobuchar added than any of the added candidates. It’s consistently a little unpredictable. I’m additionally not that reliable of an interviewer. [laughs] I’m never absolutely abiding what I’m activity to say. I consistently address questions, but they don’t consistently arise out.
LB: Aback you’re accepting clearly bullshitted with political messaging, how do you administer your frustration?
RM: I’m not a accustomed interrupter. [MSNBC host] Chris Matthews is acclaimed as an arresting interviewer, and it’s not because he’s rude. It’s that he has such a feel for the aback and alternating of babble that he knows aback you’re not activity to acknowledgment the catechism or aback it’s activity to be boring. He can see it coming, and afore you alpha to about-face that council wheel, he has redirected the car. That’s a aptitude I so appetite I had. I’d be a bigger accuser if I were added adequate interjecting. I try to assignment about my own weaknesses. But I additionally try to assert on candidates actuality actuality in person, because afresh I can do a abracadabra amulet thing.
LB: Is there addition who’s eluded you?
RM: Admiral Barack Obama. I interviewed him as a candidate, but the absolute eight years that he was president, he never did addition account with me.
LB: Any approach as to why?
RM: I don’t know. There were a agglomeration of times we anticipation it was activity to happen. We did get abutting against the end of his presidency, but the account was canceled. I couldn’t biking because of a hurricane. Can’t accusation him for that.
LB: Accept you been in a allowance with Trump in the past?
RM: I’ve told this adventure before, but I approved to account him aback he was a candidate. [Trump’s then-campaign manager] Kellyanne Conway kept saying, “I’m activity to get him for you.” And I was like, “I’m absolutely ready. I’ll go anywhere. I’ll do anything.” Eventually, the attack came through and said, “Mr. Trump is accommodating to accept a buzz babble with you, but he wants to do that afore any interview. Aggregate that happens in this conversation, and the actuality of the babble itself, is off the record.” OK, fine. So I’m on the buzz with him lobbying for the account — this is as he’s wrapping up the choice — and we’re talking about what the primary’s been like and the nuances of the polling. He says he brand how I appearance the polling — at that point, I’d accept a bar blueprint assuming the polling result, and I’d put a little headshot of the applicant on top. He said he admired the way his arch looked on the graphs. I said article to the aftereffect of, “Listen, Mr. Trump, I apperceive you’ve got as abundant advantage as you appetite from all these account outlets, but you’re not accepting in beat of my audience, which is a ample admirers in cable news. If you appetite to try to angle your attack in agreement of what you’ve been anecdotic to me — absent to adeptness independents, antagonistic Democrats, and Democrats who don’t like Hillary Clinton — I anticipate you should arise on. It’s not activity to be easy, but it’ll be different.” And he says, “Well, this has been absolutely good. You can use this.” And I was like, “What do you mean, ‘I can use this’?” And he said, “Was this on TV?” “No, this is not on TV.” “Well, you can put this on TV.” For added than a anniversary we’ve been negotiating that this is absolutely off the record, no recording. So I’ve aloof had this babble with him, and he now thinks he’s done an account with me. I’m like, “You absolutely anticipate my account with you would be chatting about your acclamation and [Republican primary opponent] Jeb Bush?” He afflicted his apperception about the off-the-record attributes of the babble and said I could use it. That’s why I can alarm to you that this happened.
LB: If you were to be in a allowance with him anytime soon, area would you alpha the conversation?
RM: What would you appetite [to know] from him? If you could ask him a question, what would you ask him?
LB: What do you affliction about? Aback you see a arrant adolescent who’s been taken abroad from her mother on the bound and you apperceive that that’s because of you…? Nice icebreaker.
RM: He’d absolutely accord you a abundant acknowledgment to that. “Fake news. Obama’s the one who…” I accomplishment I get to account him. I apprehend at some point I will. But there’s an abnormal claiming with this president. He is absolutely confused from the truth. He’s an capricious narrator for his own mind. Aback he stands up there at the G7 [summit] and says, “The Aboriginal Lady has gotten to apperceive Kim Jong Un.” Aboriginal of all, you weren’t asked about Kim Jong Un. Additional of all, whether or not you anticipate the absolutist of North Korea is a acceptable actuality doesn’t matter. But why accompany your wife into this? Your wife has not met Kim Jong Un.
LB: There are bright instances area Kim Jong Un affairs accept occurred, and Melania Trump has not been there.
RM: Never. The White Abode itself had to analyze that she has not met him. So aback it comes to interviewing a admiral who has that affectionate of accord to the truth, you accept to ask questions that are advised to arm-twist article abroad — because you’re not activity to get the accuracy from him. You accept to ask questions that brighten article about his own action or habits that he doesn’t apprehend he should lie about. You accept to backfoot him a bit.
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LB: What makes you affronted about what’s accident now?
RM: I’m not that affronted of a person. I get frustrated. I get sad. I’m an accessible crier. I am emotionally afflicted by the wanton accident of animality on bodies who accept done annihilation amiss and don’t deserve it. It doesn’t change the way I do stuff. Sometimes I anticipate beat about little tricks and techniques to not cry on air aback I’m talking about article awfully terrible.
LB: Like what?
RM: Compression yourself appropriate actuality [pinches her duke amid her deride and basis finger]. Aloof absolutely bend it. It causes a assumption affliction response. Sometimes I cry on TV. That happens. I’d rather it not.
LB: Why? I feel like bodies — abnormally in backroom — become contemptuous about crying. It’s not a device. It’s because you’re activity something.
RM: I apprehend the admirers will feel things aback we’re advertisement on agitating or difficult stories, but for me to affectation emotion, I don’t anticipate that’s accessible to anybody. It’s a distraction. If you’re accepting an affecting acknowledgment to the news, I appetite to account that and not bruise on it.
LB: What do you feel best optimistic about now?
RM: I wrote this oil-and-gas book, Blowout. It’s about the end of the world, but the abode area I concluded up absolutely fabricated me optimistic. The basal apriorism of the book is that capitalism — baby d democracy, babyminding — is threatened. The cure to that is added democracy. Capitalism is the best arrangement of government on apple — it’s the alone affair that works — and it’s in abatement all over the world. It’s alarming to see absolutism rear its arch and arise to booty authority in places area you’d anticipate there wouldn’t be decidedly abundant soil. But I feel assured that, ultimately, autonomous adeptness will win. We apperceive what the band-aid is: bodies cogent themselves in an able way, actuality listened to, and accepting adumbrative government that does what they want. That’s still the best idea, and I don’t anticipate it’s a googly-eyed abstracted thing.
LB: I adulation allurement about claimed appetite and pride because some women are like, “Oh, I don’t appetite to say I’m proud.” In my opinion, that’s BS. So what are you appreciative of?
RM: I am appreciative of the assignment that we do on the appearance every day. We don’t consistently do aggregate right, but aback we get actuality wrong, we actual it. I’ve got a almanac I can angle on in agreement of what we put out there and the belief we’ve advanced. In this business, actuality on the air this continued in itself is affectionate of a above achievement. We abound bodies on our staff, and they don’t get abused or advised poorly. It’s a actual knockabout industry in agreement of turnover, but we’ve approved to be added effective and sustainable. I accept not begin it to be acceptable in agreement of my own anatomy and my own health.
LB: How is your health? Aside from the obvious.
RM: I’ve got seven bedraggled disks and binding in my close and three broken ligaments and an avulsion fracture. I’m aloof a mess.
LB: Is it from sitting and account a lot?
RM: The aback and close actuality is. Ten-plus hours a day, bristles canicule a week, 50 weeks a year, 11 years—
LB: Fifty a year? You alone booty two weeks off?
RM: About, yeah. And it’s accomplished to do that for one year, but aback you do it for 11 years, you abatement apart.
LB: What exercise do you do?
RM: Appropriate now I don’t do anything. It’s a disaster. I aching my aback in the bounce of 2017, and aback afresh I’ve been accomplishing old-people exercise.
LB: We’re all accepting there. Aloof be beat about it.
RM: My father-in-law, Susan’s dearly ancient dad, acclimated to say, “Getting old is not for sissies.” And I’m like, “Well…” [laughs] My mission for the abutting brace of years is to get my anatomy aback in adjustment so I can do the affectionate of movement I charge to accumulate myself sane. I like to fish, I like to hike, I like to be outdoors. I can’t do any of that appropriate now.
LB: What’s a abundant day like aback you’re not working?
RM: I’ve got a absolutely alive anatomy — all my limbs! I don’t accept three broken ligaments and an avulsion fracture. I deathwatch up in Massachusetts — I go home to western Mass. on Friday nights. Susan and I accept breakfast. We airing the dog, she goes for a 25-mile bike ride, I go fishing, and I absolutely bolt a fish. For all the fishing I do, I’m terrible. I haven’t gotten bigger over time. But I will angle any way — in the sea, in a lake, in a river, in a bathtub. Afresh we arise home and comedy darts. She cooks; I accomplish cocktails. It’s aboriginal to bed, aboriginal to rise. If I could accept that day 10,000 canicule in a row, I would be happy.
LB: How abundant is it to aloof angle in a river and amplitude out?
RM: That’s absolutely what fishing is for me. I’m applesauce at it. I alone apperceive three knots, and aback I’m attached one of those knots, I charge complete calmness and focus. Everybody thinks of fishing as a affair you do with beer, but no. I adulation drinking; I’m, like, semipro. I additionally adulation fishing. I would never do them together. You charge both hands.
LB: You accomplish the affair at home, though.
RM: Yes, but I fabricated a aphorism about nine years ago: no alcohol on academy nights. So if I’m authoritative cocktails, it’s a weekend. I acquisition that if I accept a cocktail or a bottle of Scotch, I cannot be counted on to not accept addition one. It reduces your inhibitions and accordingly reduces your adeptness to be like, “I’m aloof [having one],” admitting if I’m activity to accept a bottle of wine, I can accept one glass. I’m absolutely religious about it. Alike if I’m at banquet and everybody’s accepting a martini, nope. It’s a academy night. But bodies apperceive I’m a acceptable drinker. Whenever addition comes aback from vacation, they accompany me hooch. I accept Scotch, rye, bourbon, Irish pot-stilled whiskey, mezcal. In case of the apocalypse, you should arise to my office.
LB: What do you do afterwards the appearance on academy nights?
RM: I babble with the attic crew, booty out my acquaintance lenses, and booty off my makeup. I put my atramentous blazer aback on the arbor and my atramentous camisole aback in the cardboard bag and afresh do some assignment in the office.
LB: What do you buy, clothing-wise?
RM: I’m not a shopper, really. I apperceive this is off-brand for InStyle. I’m cool into handkerchiefs. Susan buys me beautiful best hankies. I get alarming about their luck value. I accept all these little rules about how they can’t be confused from one abridged to addition pocket, and if you accidentally acquit your trousers with a handkerchief in the pocket, that has a specific luck quotient.
LB: I bet you accept your own spreadsheet in your head. Who do you anticipate has abundant style?
RM: I’ve been psyched to see the women’s civic soccer aggregation go so aggro on appearance and aloof be like a) We are activity to abruptness you, b) We’re all activity to be absolutely different, and c) We’re not activity to be annihilation like anybody abroad in this field.
LB: Do you bethink a attending you had aback you were adolescent aback you thought, “I’ve nailed this”?
RM: I was absolutely into my first-ever sports compatible aback I played on a alloyed boys-and-girls under-6 basketball aggregation at the YMCA. I bethink the outfit: a atramentous T-shirt with chicken autograph and atramentous gym shorts. This was, like, 1979. I anticipate I kept the accouterments for a continued time. My parents — absolve them — apparently still accept it. Poor things, they can never apple-pie up their house. I’m like, “No, I absolutely charge that!” They’re like, “You’re 46! We’ve captivated on to this for 40 years!”
LB: What about aback you were a teen?
RM: I was a tomboy, and I got to comedy sports. But I came out to myself aback I was 16 and afresh came out to everybody abroad aback I was 17. Accepting there and acumen that you’re anomalous and you charge to get out of your bourgeois town, there was never a moment of, like, concrete self-satisfaction. I’m still alive on that.
LB: Yeah. So afterwards the appearance you put the blazer aback on the rack. What time do you assuredly get home?
RM: I’m usually home by 11ish. I airing the dog. Susan stays up for me valiantly. We accept a midnight supper. I’m up until 2 or 2:30, and afresh in the morning I’m accessible to alpha again.
LB: And so it goes.
RM: I accept a abundant activity — a abundant job, the world’s greatest relationship, an alarming dog. My family’s awesome. My staff’s amazing. This is the greatest burghal in the world, and I leave on the weekends and go to the greatest abode in the world. I’m accomplishing great. The catechism is how continued I can do it for, but I wouldn’t barter any of this for annihilation in the world.
LB: OK, then. I’m activity to alarm this “Portrait of Misery.”
RM: Aloof alarm it “Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation: Tuesdays with Rachel Maddow.”
Photographed by Christopher Sturman. Makeup: Alisa Gurnari.
For added belief like this, aces up the November affair of InStyle, accessible on newsstands, on Amazon, and for agenda download Oct. 18.
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